Confused Michigan Lawmakers Step Backwards in the Name of Support
At the end of April this year, Michigan House Representatives introduced a five bill adoption package deal that has a direct goal “making the adoption process easier”. Now the original article I saw this morning was very brief, so I reserved the right to be outraged until I had time to further research and investigate each bill, the full text of the proposed legislation, the current adoption laws as they are in the State of Michigan and the parties behind these bills.
Here’s what I found out.
The Michigan Republican’s seem very proud of their efforts per their “news brief” on these adoption bills. Based on the literature, they are claiming to “will help Michigan mothers and children” and of course, how could that be a bad thing? The ( more than) five separate and quite complicated bills are being added in to the already existing maze of Michigan adoption laws on the books under the general heading of adoption. It becomes easy to see how the general public gets confused regarding all the many aspects of adoption and jumbles it up in a happy every after story mess when our leaders are so guilty of the same.
Statements such as “eliminating burdensome red-tape and make the adoption process more efficient while providing children in foster care with added stability and support” easily make the public and politicians and their PR companies feel good while masking that the new proposed laws are actually geared at making the separation of families easier.
Let’s look at each proposed adoption legislation separately. We’ll examine what the Michigan law makers think they are doing verses what the bill means to the adoption industry.
Michigan House Bill No. 4646
Introduced by Rep. Mike Shirkey and Kurtz and referred to the Committee on Families, Children, and Seniors HB 4646 would allow for out of court consent and temporary placement in direct (aka private and voluntary domestic infant agency) adoptions.
The bill would also place a 72 hour time limit for the mother to revoke consent for the adoption. That’s three days, folks. Three. Meaning you can give up your baby and only have three days to change your mind. Of course, everyone who goes through a traumatic experience like finding that they are unable to care for their child can clear their heads completely and be of complete mind and body after 72 hours.
In Pro Adoption Language:
“Current law doesn’t set a time limit for the mother to revoke her consent. The 72 hour time limit would give Michigan standards closer to Florida and Texas, two of the national leaders in adoption.”
“The laws currently operating in Michigan make the adoption process very time consuming and tedious for everyone involved,” said Shirkey, R-Clarklake. “Work must be done to make the process quicker and more efficient to protect Michigan children and give mothers more options when dealing with an unexpected pregnancy.”
What HB 4646 Means in Adoption Truth Talk: We’ll take the most obvious first: Mike Shirkey either has no idea what he is talking about or has been fed a huge glass of adoption Kool aide by the adoption industry if he actually thinks that Florida and Texas are considered “leaders in adoption”. Texas, home to Gladney Adoption Services is riddled with past black market adoptions, civil rights infractions against adoptees, CPC adoption funnels and is the birthplace of the NCFA– the lobby group for the adoption industry. Likewise Florida’s adoption laws are also horrible unfair to original families as it is a an “adoption friendly state” where even blatant forced adoptions are excused. And how is a shorter revoke time presenting more options for women? Sounds like it’s closing the door to options if you ask me.
In a nutshell the full text of HB 4646 reads rather repetitively, but the overall concept is this: BEFORE any consent to adoption relinquishment forms are signed, the birth family may transfer physical custody of the baby to the prospective adoptive family. This can be either through a direct private adoption placement, or between the agency and the PAPs. The PAPs have to have had a homestudy, etc already.
Now it states that “temporary placement may be revoked by the filing of a petition” and that should this happen “prospective adoptive parent must relinquish custody of the child within 24 hours after being served with an order” and that sounds all well and good until the whole process can be looked it.
As described; first temporary custody is made. Two days after that a report is supposed to be made to the courts regarding the placement of said child. Then 30 days later, the court wants to see either a petition for adoption or know that the child is back with the original parents. Now it kind of sounds like it might be (voluntary) foster care placement and could possibly have the goal of NOT having kids in foster care for long periods of time, the bill seem more about direct pre-adoptive placements through agencies or with private lawyers and original families. If after 45 days there has been neither a petition to adopt or a revoke, then the court is supposed to investigate why this adoption is not moving forward. Again, I feel like foster care issues and language is being used to hide and confuse people.
Making it harder to get your baby back in Michigan
Boldly added section 10 of HB 4646, this proposed pro-adoption legislation says that even the temporary placement MUST be filed in court NOT LESS THAN 72 HOURS AFTER THE TEMPORARY PLACEMENT HAS BEEN MADE.
So let’s put this in reality. Expectant mom is considering adoption and is working with an agency or lawyer. She has already “chosen” the PAPs and is being instructed on how things are done. So she has the baby and wants “baby to begin bonding” so she signs over temporary placement to the PAPS asap. Even though she has NOT consented to terminate her parental rights, she still ONLY HAS THREE DAYS to get her baby back physically.
Now in a direct placement, consent to relinquish paternal rights to a child does not have to be in front of a court anymore. Seems that a lawyer for the birth family OR an agency worker can witness the relinquishment consent “release”. Now once she does sign the consent “release”; there is another 72 hour window where she must provide written revocation to the agency or lawyer who took her consent to begin with and THEY are the ones who are to help her file the petition to revoke consent within 72 hours. Can we say conflict of interest anyone?
There are also provisions where the original parents can waive the rights to “adoption counseling” plus fuzzy language about the biological/ putative father signing ” if known”, plus seems to regulate that the biological family must retain contact including knowledge of physical residence for medical purposes, but the same is not asked of the PAPs, but this part is what sends chills down my spine:
THE COURT IN WHICH THE OUT-OF-COURT CONSENT WAS FILED MAY DETERMINE THAT REVOCATION IS NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILD.
IF AN ADOPTIVE PARENT OBJECTS TO A REVOCATION SUBMITTED UNDER SUBSECTION (9), TIMELY NOTICE OF REVOCATION DOES NOT IMMEDIATELY RESULT IN THE RETURN OF THE CHILD TO THE PARENT. THE RIGHT OF THE PARENT TO CUSTODY OF THE CHILD IS NOT SUPERIOR TO THE RIGHTS OF THE ADOPTIVE PARENT TO CUSTODY OF THE CHILD.
In other words even if the placement was supposed to be temporary and even if one revokes consent in a timely manner and manages to get it filed by the very same people who wanted you to relinquish in the first place, the court doesn’t have to give you back your baby.
Compare to the Current Laws?
After reading the new proposed legislation, and then comparing it to parts it is deemed to replace 710.44, 710.29 and 710.23d, PA 487 and 1996 PA 409 the very things I HATE about this bill are what has been newly added in. Previously, while consent could be given any time after birth; it HAD to be in front of a judge and court ( meaning mom has to be OUT of the hospital) and there was a mandatory hearing scheduled 7 days after that:
“Consent shall not be executed until after the investigation the court considers proper and until after the judge, referee, or other individual authorized in subsection (2) has fully explained to the parent or guardian the legal rights of the parent or guardian and the fact that the parent or guardian by virtue of the consent voluntarily relinquishes permanently his or her rights to the child.”
Michigan House Bill HB 4647
Introduced by Rep. O’Brien Rep. Margaret O’Brien, and referred to the Committee on Families, Children, and Seniors, HB 4647 will shorten the supervisory period for families adopting an infant under the age of 1 to three months from six months. This bill takes the place and amends A bill to amend section 56 of chapter X (MCL 710.56), as amended by2004 PA 487.
In Pro Adoption Language: “As a former social worker, I saw firsthand the many barriers currently in place and the many hoops to jump through for families looking to adopt in Michigan,” said O’Brien, R-Portage. “Reforms need to happen to make it easier for children to be placed. This package provides common-sense solutions that will eliminate unnecessary burdens on families trying to adopt in Michigan, and help more kids be placed in loving homes.”
So here again, we have some strong foster care adoption language which everybody loves. Of course, no one wants to see kids stuck in foster care for extended amounts of time. So let’s look at the time limits compared on the current Magician adoption laws and the new proposed bill:
| MCL 710.56 | HB 4647 | |
| court may enter an order of adoption | 6 months | 6 months |
| court may waive the 6-month period | yes | yes |
| court can extend the 6-month period | yes | yes |
| court may not exceeding 18 months | yes | yes |
| court may exceed 18 months per section 41.2 | yes | yes |
Wow. So, while it’s really confusing as it says that the order of adoption must not exceed a n 18 month period in one case, but then can exceed the 18 month period in another case (appeal of termination of parental rights), both versions of the law are EXACLTY the same. How is this going to help all those poor children stuck in foster care who needs to find their forever families?
It’s not.
Because the BIG change is that:
FOR AN ADOPTEE WHO IS LESS THAN 1 YEAR OLD AT THE TIME OF FILING, 3 MONTHS AFTER FORMAL PLACEMENT UNDER SECTION 51 OF THIS CHAPTER, UNLESS THE COURT DETERMINES THAT CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE ARISEN THAT MAKE ADOPTION UNDESIRABLE, THE COURT MAY ENTER AN ORDER OF ADOPTION.
Which REEKS of domestic infant voluntarily placement since every sane logical aware person in the world knows that the children that NEED to get out of foster care are NOT infants UNDER a year old, but older children and sibling groups. The demand for infants is huge and this change in the Michigan legislation clearly panders to the prospective adoptive parents who do not want to wait the extra three months by law before the child is legally “theirs”. It helps the agencies who want to be able to guarantee placement to their paying customers.
Michigan House Bill HB 4648
Sponsored by state Rep. Kenneth Kurtz, HB 4648 replaces section 39 of chapter X (MCL 710.39)will ensure that a birth mother will not lose custody of her child to the father during the adoption process.
In Pro Adoption Language: “Increasing the adoption rate is one of the top legislative priorities for the state House this year,” said Kurtz, R-Coldwater and chair of the House Families, Children and Seniors Committee. “More help, support and guidance are needed for all parties involved in the adoption process so that we can provide Michigan birth mothers with more and better options while at the same time helping children be placed into loving and caring homes. By providing better possible outcomes we can reassure birth mothers that they will be protected during the adoption process.”
In both cases, in Michigan the court CAN decide that the court can determine if the biological father of a child is “fit” enough to care for his blood even if he has appeared at the hearing and requests custody of the child. His rights CANNOT be terminated if he has “established a custodial relationship with the child or has provided substantial and regular support or care”… “for the mother during pregnancy or for either mother or child after the child’s birth during the 90 days before notice of the hearing was served upon him”.
In Adoption Reality: Sounds like they are trying to keep deadbeat dads from having rights to their children, but in adoption practices as we know it, often an expectant mother, either on her own or often under the direction of the agency, will not tell a father of the pregnancy. A man cannot support a child that he does not know that he has, so already the law is kind of dicey.
So what the big change? There are two big additions to this adoption law.
The new proposed legislation added that even if the father “HAS REGISTERED IN A TIMELY MANNER WITH THE RESPONSIBLE FATHER REGISTRY”, if he hasn’t provided “support” ( aka he didn’t know) BUT he DID register, he can STILL have his parental rights terminated.
And don’t ask me WHAT a “timely manner” means. You think they could have spelled that one out a bit more clearly?
The current 710.33 Notice of intent to claim paternity, says that a potential father can claim his paternal rights in court. No mention of the “Responsible Father Registry”. Now, since I know that historically the various state putative father’s registries are all but impossible to find by the average man and even more often most guys don’t even know about them until they are too late, I decided to see how hard it as to find Michigan’s.
It’s not hard. It’s impossible. Because, get this, there isn’t one. Really. There IS NOT a “Responsible Father’s Registry” in the state of Michigan right now!
Seriously.
Now, HB4648 was filed on April 30th and clearly mentions the nonexistent Responsible Father’s Registry. So on May2nd, Michigan House Bill HB 4661 is introduced that CREATES the Responsible Father’s Registry! But wait, there is more! There are actually MORE ADOPTION BILLS proposed for Michigan in the name of “reform” and HB 4660, 4661 and 4662 ALL have to do with legislating a nonexistent father’s registry. ( and they still do not define a “timely manner”)
But that’s only half. The other change is IF the mother has NOT relinquished her rights, but intends to and the court has decided that the FATHER”s rights are NOT to be terminated and find him good to parent, then they cancel the whole shebang and return the child to the mother. In other words, mothers who sometimes DO proceed unethically regarding the father’s of their babies are no longer in danger of losing the ability to make the final decisions. No harm, no foul.
So essentially a man can do good diligence and file with the putative father’s registry, attend all the court hearings, want to raise his own child when the mother does not and the court can terminate his rights or decide that he would be a good parent, but then lose the child to the same mother who attempted to strip him of his child.
And the creation of the “responsible fathers’ registry” for all intents and purposes that I can see, is to make it easier for the adoption agencies to FIND a father in order to tell him that his rights are about to be terminated, because it certainly does not protect HIM. Father’s Rights Advocates take note. Michigan just raped you.
Michigan House Bill HB 4649 and HB 4650
Basically, I don’t have an issue with what I see on HB 4649 or even HB 4650 as they actually serve as an additional foster parent bill of rights and gives them more information about the children in their care, plus gives some power of investigation. Yawn. Sponsored by Rep. Kevin Cotter and Rep. Ben Glardon, will create the Resource Families Bill of Rights and authorize the Office of Children’s Ombudsman to investigate alleged violations of the Resource Families Bill of Rights.
Three Out of Five Proposed Bills in Michigan Support the Destruction of Natural Families
It’s almost hard to believe that these legislators can actually think that they are doing something for the public good with these proposed bills. With all the “changes” in the new proposed bills actually making it easier for adoptive parents to adopt INFANTS, it’s clear to see who will benefit from these horrible bills should they become laws: The adoption agencies and adoption lawyers who profit off of the separation of children and families.
Please consider writing the Michigan state reps and pointing out how their steps “forward” are truly not in the best interests of mothers, fathers and children. I am hoping that they are truly just woefully uneducated about how adoption agencies and professionals actually will use these laws in order to separate families for adoption. If we are to believe their sound bites, they probably just got sold a bill a good about the “poor unwanted children” needing “forever families’ and have no idea of the evil they are about to unleash.
- N-999 House Office Building
- P.O. Box 30014
- Lansing, MI 48909
- Phone: (517) 373-1775
- Toll Free: (888) 347-8065 [888 DIST065]
- Email: MikeShirkey@house.mi.gov
- N-992 House Office Building
- P.O. Box 30014
- Lansing, MI 48909
- Phone: (517) 373-1794
- Toll Free: (866) 362-8812
- Email: KennethKurtz@house.mi.gov
- N-995 House Office Building
- P.O. Box 30014
- Lansing, MI 48909
- Phone: (517) 373-1774
- Toll Free: 877-347-8061
- Email: MargaretOBrien@house.mi.gov
And yes, I am pretty outraged.
THANK YOU Claudia for digging into this!! This is a complete and total outrage and I will confirm that they are following the ‘Florida’ adoption laws model almost to a T. These people have NO IDEA what this means for natural families who become tangled with and agency. Said agency is not going to let that product, I mean womb wet infant, out of their site. They will continue to have mothers follow through with the ‘temporary placement’ from their hospital bed because they have been conditioned that the child should start bonding right away. It seems if that happens, there’s no going back – not without a good attorney who will I dee stand that time is of the essence. Never mind that many mothers are in financial strife and cannot afford an attorney in the first place, and hence the reason that they feel its best to be separated from their child.
When I saw the ‘blurb’ that I posted, I knew that something was up.
Again, THANK YOU for putting these bills in PLAIN EVERYDAY adoption agency speak and natural family friendly verbiage.
Please people share this with your friends and family. If you have been touched by adoption in any way, this explains that they are attempting to make it easier to rip Holden away from their natural families, and make it easier to eliminate the issue of a father having rights.
This has got to be brought to light, and the reps supporting the bill need to understand the damage that this will allow adoption agencies and professionals to accomplish even easier than they to today.
These bills are NOT the ‘right’ thing to do to support natural families.
Anyone else think that this has to do with the case where a father filed paternity in Michigan to stay an adoption and that a mom went to Utah to give birth and now its being contested and reviewed in Utah’s supreme court? Good god this all sucks.
I wrote all three legislators- thanks for posting them, Claudia!
Kurtz is Bethany’s installed shill. He has vowed to kill any unconditional access bill introduced and, so far, has been very successful. With Repubs having the power now, state issues are decided by payola and GOB networking. The entire civil rights outlook in Michigan is dismal at best. Until the profit motive is removed, the only adoption-related legislation we are likely to see here is that which streamlines the process.
Thank you for confirming that, Jimm! For some reason I had that feeling.. maybe it was something read once, but Kurtz + Bethany made my spider senses tingle.
Plus, I can’t help wonder if THIS Kurtz is at all related to the evil Seymore Kurtz ( http://www.ehbabes.com/sample-page/the-kurtz-network-of-baby-brokers/)…..
A piece of advice regarding politics and enacting change, writing letters to these representatives does little. More than likely you will receive a generic cookie cutter response back that will not influence their policy making. I’ve interned in a congressional office and know this is how our representatives (at any level) operate.
What can make a difference is sending money or volunteering to any local or national lobbying groups who support your cause or sending campaign contributions to individuals who support your cause.
See, but THIS is the issue Greg.. there ARE no powerful lobby groups that support the cause. The great majority of people do not understand the issues nor the way the adoption industry works. They hear the soundbites about “forever families” and “unwanted children” and sign on. No one is even monitoring pending legislation.. except people in Adoptionland dedicated to exposing the corruption.
For the most part; THIS is what you will see as far as a lobby attempt.
Claudia,
I understand that it’s easier said than done but you could start one. You have to start somewhere and while it will take time I believe you have the cause, attitude, drive and following to enact change. You get how to convey a message that motivates people and brings out emotion. Just look at this site and the traffic and passion that you get from your followers.
But that’s just me from where I’m sitting and what I know how things work in this country on other issues.
Claudia,
I appreciate you breaking these laws down. I am in Michigan and have been watching this go down and posting as much as I could. I am fairly new to all of this, but I am pretty educated now here in my state. When I brought this up originally to the people that I know that have attempted to, and also have sat through years of helping to change bills, this is basically what I was told…we are up against Bethany and basically screwed! Most of the people here have been fighting and trying to change bills and are “burned out”. I am a fairly new reunited bio-sister that is in reunion (a little over 3 years). I quickly became educated in the laws when I was searching and was appalled! One thing, I was not aware of my sister’s existence until Jan of 2010. So to be totally honest, adoption was not something that I ever knew about, until it directly effected me and my family! In that time period we attempted to make some changes, and everything became so muddied up that we just “washed” the bill. There were literally about 10 people that were willing to go and testify and I could not believe it! At this point, I am frustrated because for one, my young children are and have been effected by the lies and secrecy of adoption. My oldest daughter, Alexandria, whom is almost 16 fights as hard as I do to try and educate people about what is going on. I am attempting to try to start a support group, because there is such a lack of them here and I get no response from anyone here for feedback. I even offered to “fund the building rent”, have had materials from people out of state donated to me, but I need some guidance and back up! It looks like a onsite meeting would consist of just my daughter and I! I am not laying blame on anyone here, it’s just the people that have been through years of this are burned out. My goal has become to educate people like myself (I am 43, no spring chicken) and also the generations such as my daughter’s that suffer from all of this! I am sorry to vent, but when you are trying to help and I have been posting this news in various groups over the weeks, no one paid attention! Where can we start????
Thank you,
Claudette Garman
As a prospective adoptive parent. I pray that the laws of Michigan change to protect the child and the adoptive parents. We took temporary custody of an infant who’s birthmom was 14 yrs old. Her parents were in agreement this was the right thing for her future as well as the child. Nine days later her older sister had convinced her to get the baby back. This is unfair, painful and humiliating. What kind of life will this child with a child in a low income area have? She has now acted out of emotion now reality. As a result, we will all be hurt. Once the decision is made it should be honored by the law. There should not be weeks and weeks to ponder this decision.
While I understand that you were hurt by this, Vette, I have to say that it is probably a MUCH better thing for this mother to have her baby back.
You understood that it was TEMPORARY. That is a risk you choose. Painful would be a 14 year old damned to live the rest of her life without her baby. A 14 year old with support CAN be a good parent and it sounds like her sister was the only person looking out for this mother. I thank God she was.
What kind of life with this child have? Income SHOULD NEVER BE A CONDITION FOR RELINQUISHMENT. She will have a life with her FAMILY. She SHOULD act out of emotion.. as the emotion is what will rue the day. It is cruel and unfair to expect a young girl to make such a huge decision that will effect the rest of her life without having a chance to try on those emotions and decide if she can really live with it. Many mothers cannot. And nine days is hardly weeks.
And it is humiliating for who? You? You are more worried about your needs, your desires that forcing a mother to love the rest of her life with a huge hole in her soul. If you cared so much about the life of this baby then you would be helping the CHILD and the baby. Not leaving the 14 year old mother in the same situation but without her baby. It would be kinder for you to just shoot her.
I STRONGLY suggest that you do a HECK of a lot more reading about what it is that YOU are asking a mother to live with with before you try adopting again.
Wow, thats an interesting response. Let’s be clear I’m not asking a mother to live with anything. I didn’t ask her to put her baby up for adoption. She pursued that option. Which I assume she went that route because she thought it was best for the baby’s future. I don’t understand why many of you are so angry at people like me. We are not making these women give up their child. This is something they are choosing. And we (adoptive parents) are saying this is not a good time for you to parent I’ll do it, I’ll take her.
Anyone who thinks a 14 yr old is capable of taking care of a child is crazy. Any one who thinks thats best for the future of the mother or baby is crazy. And anyone who thinks decisions should be made on emotion is crazy. Please tell me any decision you’ve successfully made that was done based upon emotion? You didn’t.
Your response sounds like something I would expect from a 14yr old. We don’t expect 14 yr olds to make any other major decision simply because they typically don’t have the forward thinking to understand the ramification of their decisions. ie – I’m sure she didn’t realize the ramifications of having sex (a decision based upon emotion). This is why her parents were guiding her toward adoption. The young lady was in full agreement. Until her sister (after the placement) shows up and says she will help. She’s telling the young lady she can go to high school online. This is doing nothing but stacking the odds against her and the baby.
And yes this is where income becomes a factor. No, income is not a reason for adoption. However, it is a realistic factor. Low income, the age of the young lady, compromising her education, lack of readiness, and support are all reasons that led them to adoption. Unless her sister moves her into her single parent household of 4 this is not a good decision for the baby (OR THE MOTHER). You folks have got to stop getting mad at those who want to adopt children. Stop trying to make people think adoption is a bad decision and adoptive parents are the bad guys. We didn’t make anyone get pregnant and we didn’t push them into the adoption agency. I am all for the bills that have been presented to Senate. And will celebrate when they become law!
Ok, I feel the need to state my point! Vette, I am sorry that the arrangement that you made with this 14 year old, poor, uneducated child decided to change her mind. As a mother of children that are around or coming to that age, I have to applaud the older sister. I must say that I find it actually quite insulting that you would insinuate, that this 14 year old child, with support, is basically a hopeless case and will never amount to anything! WOW! What a way to build someone’s character and self esteem up!
I pray and hope the day never falls upon any of my 3 girls that they would ever think that they were nothing. I am quite proud to say that I know if any of my daughter’s were ever in that situation, each one would support the other! That is what is called, Family Preservation! Just because I am not a birth mother does not mean that I have not seen the destruction, havoc, confusion, and total “lack of education” of the impact that it does have on a family!
I am a woman, that although was not “surrendered”, “adopted”, but led a very traumatic childhood. I grew up “poor”, and although I never had to go thru the trauma of “giving up a child”, survived, and beat the odds that you speak of that we against me!!!
I won’t get into the grit of my childhood, but I left home at the age of 15. I beat every single odd that was against me! I graduated with honors from high school, and at that time I also held a full time job to support myself. I went on to college, which was paid for by my company that I worked for. By the age of 21, I owned my own home and I am willing to bet that my salary was more that what you make today. My point is, if anyone told me that I couldn’t do it, I DID IT BETTER! You don’t know how much strength is really in a person. Anyone is capable of doing anything that they set their mind too! And I am not one that wants to come across as agrumentive, but I would definitely not want you to raise a child of mine with the mentality that you have! You are supposed to raise you children to be strong and face life as it comes! Not to give up!
Kudo’s to the sister, and I am proud of that family! I know that my daughter’s would pull together and support each other also!
All I’ll say to you Claudette is you beat the odds. Is that what typically what happens? NO, its not. If you’re making what I’m making you are a one in a million success story and I commend you. BUT, PLEASE DON”T TURN THIS INTO MONEY. Because that’s not what its about. Its about providing the best opportunity for your child. Thats what the young lady’s parents were trying to do for her. And thats what we all were trying to do for the baby. Her sister won’t be there for the 2am feeding. Her sister can’t go to school for her. And what about college? Her sister is a single mother of 3. She will have to first care for her own 3 children. Her parents don’t even believe her sister is going to be able to do it. So, why do you think you know whats best? My question to you people is when do you think adoption is the right decision???? You’re so against someone else taking these kids You’re so against changing the process so its not drug out(which discourages people from adoption) Please tell me when is it okay in your perfect family world.
To all the anti-adoption folks and to all who are against the change in adoption laws please tell me if you’re helping to promote abstinence or safe sex? Have you joined any organizations, are you in the schools, are you working in the community centers to help these young ladies who get pregnant. Or are you too busy online dogging out those who are willing to take the children????
It’s a proven fact that abstinence doesn’t work, so no. I don’t bother with something that is doomed to fail. Safe sex on the other hand, which includes both the availability and affordability of birth control is something I write to my legislators about quite often. I also post tons of facts for others to see that if we, as a country, want to reduce the numbers of unintended pregnancies which would help both the need for social services, reduce abortions and help eliminated adoptions, need to embrace.
While I am taking the chance that you perhaps will see this as an excuse, my particular skill set is as a platform here; posting information, supporting the voices in the adoption community, and educating along with providing support form those who have suffered at the hands of the adoption industry. I am also particularly dedicated to the fight for the adopted to have their OBC’s and so I spend a lot of m time working in that regard. In fact, I just returned form the ARC national protest and lobby efforts in Atlanta.
Luckily, there are others who have picked up the mantle and are providing support for mothers to parent: http://wsbirthmom.wordpress.com/. So yes, there is a WHOLE network of us who are actively providing support and meeting the needs to mothers so they don’t have to lose their babies to adoption.
As far as “dogging”;I do have to point out that YOU, my dear, came here. No one looked for you and dragged you here or put a gun to your head and made you comment. That you choose to comment, perhaps without educating yourself on the very nature of this site, is hardly something that I care about at all. And as I always do, instead of defending your ignorant action and trying to make us be the “bad guys” , I will suggest that perhaps you could just shut your hole for a bit and read. You might find that we have the opinions that we sprout off here for good reason. And if not, you are free to go. I can guarantee you that you shall not be convincing anyone here that you had a right to be feel “unfair, painful and humiliating” because a 14 year old mother was was able to keep her child due to her sister’s influence.
Vette, I would like you to revert back to your original comment where in you are the one the made this about “MONEY”!
I am very concerned, and confused about one thing….why do you continue to make the statement that “no one believes she can do this”. It has been repeated over and over! That statement totally disturbs me because I am not quite sure if you can understand what that type of statement could do to anyone (not just the mother) self esteem? Now again, this is pisses me off! I am not sure if you are a parent, but I can tell you as a mother myself, I have never told my daughter’s that they couldn’t achieve or do something! As a matter of fact, I encourage them to challenge difficult things. Would you raise your child telling them that “you didn’t believe in them, and they weren’t capable of something?” If so, I think a parenting class may be needed! That is such a destructive, insulting statement!
Now in answer to your question about adoption. I challenge you to research and educate yourself on just a few things. Most (and I am not STATING ALL) are not about the child, but it is a need to fill a void. Long term effects are bewildering….a child loses their original identity, a mother is forever damaged, a family is destroyed, and as I say, a “Branch is forever broken off a family tree!” As someone that has suffered the impact of adoption, watched her children suffer, and lived through what it did to my mother.
Now you have made the assumption that I think that all adoptive parents are horrible and that I am so against adoption. First of all, that is not the case! I think that there are many adoptions that could and should be avoided such as a case as this one! Is this child in danger? Is she being abused? Is she neglected? My guess would have to be NO, just for the simple fact that you know so much about what is going on, I believe that you would look for something like that. And I do also have a friend that had a child in high school, still went on to graduate, went to college, and is the proud mother of a wonderful 16 year old young man! Sure she sacrificed much of her life, and it took her longer in school, ect…but she DID it! And I know she does not regret a day of it!
I also need to address “what are we people doing”! As a Mother, I educate my children. I am extremely active in all of their lives, school events, and my 16 year old daughter is also very active in educating her peers about the effects of adoption, and HER beliefs in how Family Preservation are. Of course I promote abstinence. But, I would like to point out something that I have discussed with my children’s Pediatrician, and he also is in agreement. Where as in when I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s pregnancy was the biggest worry! When I speak to my daughter’s that are age appropriate about abstinence and safe sex, the first thing that comes out of my mouth is, TODAY IT IS LIFE OR DEATH! The diseases scare the shit out of me, not pregnancy! They know that if they decide to engage in “risky” behavior that it could literally KILL them!!!!
Now there are many organizations that I have and still do work with. How about yourself? Actually, in this whole thread here, you have inspired me to do something, so thank you! I am going to put together a list together for resources for pregnant mother’s and teenager’s that have chosen to raise their children! There are so many resources out there, and I am not just speaking of “State funding”. Again, I am not totally against adoption as you may think! There are many situations that I know of also, that it has been the only alternative! I hope I answered all of your questions, and thank you for the inspiration, and please encourage that young woman instead of tearing her down! When I read it on paper, it really looks like you want her to fail. That makes you appear desperate!!!!!
You say you educate your children and Claudette beat the odds. Do you people realize thats not the case for many young women??? I am a child advocate first. I am a firm believer we should not be promoting a teenager to raise children. And no I’m not desperate. Me and my husband are CHOOSING adoption. What you are missing is I think this young lady’s sister is saying she will support only because they were embarrassed that she was giving up the child for adoption. But is she really going to do it? Believe me it would have been the best decision for her and the baby’s future. But it seems like folks on this post are too busy in favor of everyone raising their child “in the name of family”. That is not always whats best for the situation. Family comes in many ways not just from a woman’s vagina. So, again don’t be mad at people like me for wanting to take the children. And don’t speak negative of me because I and my family had embraced this baby. Yes, my feelings were truly hurt. I don’t care that I knew it was temporary. I was hurt. Why is that wrong/bad?????
I’m not just typing I know how to use my Masters degree to read… I read your entire breakdown of the bills being presented to the senate. And I thank you. You did a great job interpreting everything. Just because you folks were NOT in favor of the bills I didn’t know you would be so angry if someone posted an opinion that was in favor. You people are angry and disgruntle for what reason I don’t know. But, you are clearly crazy if you think a 14 yr old child should raise a child. And STUPID if you think the odds of success are in her favor. I won’t be reading anymore of your non-objective responses. But, I have book marked this page in case I need to reference the interpretation of the bills. Thanks to you I have already written to the senators in support. I will be following it and willing to testify in the committee if needed. So, thanks again for the awareness!
You read one post and then thought that we should applaud you for “helping this mother” because she simply “cannot” raise her child on her own.
What you are MISSING is what relinquishment will DO to her and her child for the REST OF THEIR LIVES. It’s NOT all about “keeping within the family” because I have said before and I will say again, that a child should not be endangered. And a child should not suffer, but what we disagree on is what is considered suffering.
Does a young mother require support to successfully raise a child? yes.Is it more challenging? Yes. Will others in the community need to step up for it to work? Yes. But THAT is what we, as a society NEED to do, need to help young mothers like her find, need to advocate for, need to want our tax dollars to go to, because the alternative is NOT WORTH IT.
Oh it might be worth it for you. You might CHOOSE to see no issue and think that it’s the best outcome and live happily ever after, but are you seeing this girl as a mother? Are you seeing her a human being who has the right to raise her own child even with help? Are you imagining the pain she will face for the rest of her days knowing that she is lost to her child? Are you thinking about the tears she will shed for the rest of her life or are you judging her as too immature to be worth your compassion? That she made her bed and now must lie in it? That she must face the consequences of her poor choices to have sex in the first place and she must now reap what she sows?
That’s is why you are being schooled so harshly now. It is the focus on YOUR feelings of hurt rather than understanding that she is a mother and love is not logical. It is because you are happy to help yourself to her baby and then, LEAVE her in the same place that she was but now wounded for life. And by your own admission, she is a child herself. Who is looking out for her? Not her father? Not her mother? Not good enough by your standards, her sister? If you care for the girl and you care for the baby, and are really concerned for their outcome, not just your hurt feelings, then do more than just tell us we are wrong.
Vette,
I’m sorry to hear of your failed placement. No matter if you know that reunification is not possible it still is not easy to deal with on your end. I wish that her sister had convince her before the baby went to you. These are unfortunate situations where it’s impossible to say what the right thing is for each person to do. I don’t ever think the intention is for the mother to hurt the foster or hopeful adoptive couple but its a difficult decision for them to make. I don’t think it’s anyone’s say except the expectant/birth/first parents in terms of whether they should place for adoption or parent the child. I have my own thoughts but who am I to judge having not been in their shoes.
Regarding adoptee and birth/first parent anger, I think you need to understand where they are coming from. There is a lot of pain and grief from their loss. An adoptee can still love and be grateful for their adoptive parents but still have grief from the loss of being raised by their birth/first parent. A birth/first parent can have pain from the loss of not being able to raise their child. I am neither an adoptee, birth/first parent or adoptive parent. I am just an infertile man who has been researching adoption. I’m unsure of whether my wife and I will pursue it. But I’ve done a fair amount of research and connected with a bunch of adoptee’s and birth/first parents. This is just my feeling upon my research. The best advice I can give you is read these types of emotional pieces with an open mind.
Best of luck.
I’m sorry Claudette, I didn’t address your question “why do you say no one believes she can do it” She is a 9th grade student with no income. Her parents are saying they can not afford to help her financially. They live in an apartment. And her mother has a disability. So, the father (who’s not in the household) does not think the mother will be able to physically help the girl with the baby. So, you have no financial and limited physical assistance on top of the need to get through high school. Her sister (single mother of 3 who does not live in the house) waited until after the young lady delivered and gave the baby to us before she said she will help. But, its only so much she can do. And the young lady’s mother is said the same thing I’m saying. That’s why I continue to say adoption would have been best for the young lady and for the baby.
You came to this page and I will continue to back up why, how, ect…I feel! First let me address how you quoted me. I am speaking about believing in a person. You have done nothing but speak negatively about this young woman! I always attempt to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but all you have done is talk about a bunch of crap! I will state again that obviously at this time, she is doing just fine raising her daughter. How is the child? Do you ask? If you care so much about this child, why would you not choose to help someone, and be maybe a “mentor” to her? If your that concerned with her living conditions, help her! Offer to lend a hand with the child that you spent time with in the early part of their life! But, I already can see how this is being played out, there is no way that you could ever do anything for her without throwing it in her face that she is 14. Get over it! The 14 year old must have some pretty good help, as if she is in Michigan, CPS isn’t involved, which I am sure you are just waiting to prey on that one!!!
I never stated that a 14 year old child has the ability to raise a child on their own. But, with support, resources, family, and strength, yes it can be done! Also, I am quite alarmed at how much you seem to bring up money??? You speak with her parents? That sounds kinda suspicious to me that you know that her mom is on disability, and you talk like you are at the home everyday.
Good, I am glad that you have “bookmarked” everything, and I look forward to the day, where ,my voice will be heard against yours!!! I find it utterly repulsive in your last statement that you say, “adoption would be the best for this young lady and her baby.” Are you an expert? Who ever gave you the power to decide what is right for this young woman?? I find it VERY disturbing that this is all based upon opinion. I live in Michigan and I know that if CPS thought anything was negligent, abuse. ect…they would have taken that child away. My step sister is an expert in that field as she works in the “foster care” system. I base things on facts and your basing them on your loss! Do the right thing if you really care and help and be there for this young woman! I don’t know her, but I would!!!!!
I wish that you would educate yourself more. There are children in the system, that truly DO need a home! I am not even going to question the fact of why do you need a newborn, because I already know the answer, and you do also! Goodbye, and I do welcome the opportunity to watch you speak. I hope that you do the same for myself, and also my daughter’s!!
Hello, I looked these bills up and I see they are now with the Family committees. Whats the next step? Will they go back to the Senate? If we want to attend the meeting how do we find out when the bills will be presented?
They will go back to the Senate, who will vote whichever way was recommended by the committee. As the committee on Families, Children, and Seniors is headed by Bethany shill Kenneth Kurtz, the bill will reflect the NCFA’s desires. Public comment is sometimes (but not always) allowed. You can sign up for hearing notifications at: http://legislature.mi.gov/(S(e0lqmj55dnengm55ws3sylrb))/mileg.aspx?page=Committees
Can’t get the above link to work properly, try this one:
http://legislature.mi.gov/(S(e0lqmj55dnengm55ws3sylrb))/mileg.aspx?page=listserversignup
You will need to copy and paste the entire link for it to work.
The bills didn’t seem to ever get out of committee, but I found it (and thought others might) interesting that Kurtz also recently help introduce a bill allow adoption agencies to discriminate based on religious beliefs (4991) It’s obviously in response to the striking down of DOMA and the lesbian couple who filed suit challenging the state’s barring LGBT second parent adoption
Funny how interest of the child always keep shifting to match up to adoption agencies’ interests.
http://legislature.mi.gov/(S(h1yitu55hae2ng2xfeffuh55))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectName=2013-HB-4991
Coming from a couple who has been experiencing the adoption process for the past two years and live in Michigan: Michigan’s laws are geared towards expectant parents. I’m glad laws are in place to protect them. Those same laws discourage residents from adopting. Somehow there has to be a balance. If there was my husband and I wouldn’t have decided to pursue adoption out of state.
Hi Carrie.. thank you for commenting. I am curious and hope you don’t mind sharing a bit more? Can you tell me form your experience HOW they discourage you to adopt? Like what did you find to be in favor of the expectant parents? When I read the laws, I don’t view it the same way but I am not in the midst of them either.. I’m just reading. Another perspective of it in action is always helpful. Thanks so much!
Carrie, I am confused with your comment? I am also in Michigan and am very familiar with the laws. I’m attempting to understand exactly what you mean. I will post the laws when I get to my PC.
Reform t Forms “Consent to birthparents to sign.
Forms of Consent only ask question “#4. “Have you been given any money to sign consent “”.
Yet Adoption code of direct placement-710.44 5(d) Separate Agreements between parent or adoptive parent. MUST be ask. Contains all following. WHY isn’t that 710.44 5 (d) on the forms that birthparents sign, Or why doesnt a judge ask- its t LAW. Birthparents Rights Visits.
Please write Congress to have FORM of Consent to have -710.44 5 (d) “separate Agreements”on Consent Forms.
If a man gets terminated in jail isn’t it still a law to allow a goodbye visit
Termination of a father when in jail he still has the right to good bye visit