Is out and making the news in a very big way.
Read it yourself here It is saying all thie things that we have been saying and what is nice, is that people are listening. Or at least some. They are not listening here. Be warned, boatloads of morons are spewing hate filled crap on an unheard of basis. It could almost be funny, but it’s not.
We have the article here on Yahoo news that inspires the venom.
And David Crary from AP has done a good bit too. The NY Times did a bit too, but I haven’t found the liny yet. Alas, Rye is bugging me to “do stuff” he doesn’t know how HUGE this is.
sigh.
Oh…edit: Jenna on MSN here!!!
More edit: Sorry, but I am trying to keep up on the bad yahoo baord with real information so my feelings on this are just not evolved fully yet. Plus I am still reading the report..slowly digesting..and making ribbons!! But was just given this wonderous quote that really does sum up some of the feelings of seeing what we have been saying for years in print and BEING PUT IN NEWSPAPERS!!
“When those who have the power to name and to socially construct reality choose not to see you or hear you … when someone with the authority of a teacher, say, describes the world and you are not in it, there is a moment of psychic disequilibrium, as if you looked in the mirror and saw nothing. It takes some strength of soul—and not just individual strength, but collective understanding—to resist this void, this non-being, into which you are thrust, and to stand up, demanding to be seen and heard.”
(Adrienne Rich (b. 1929), U.S. poet, essayist, and lesbian feminist. Blood, Bread and Poetry, ch. 13 (1986). From an essay written in 1984.)
RESIST THE VOID!!!!
yeah, i linked to it too. Hey, Jenna was quoted! For whatever reason, maybe relief, this made me cry uncontrollably.
Might we actually be heard? Could we really make a difference? Will someone finally listen?
ROFLMAO… yeah, my hubby just told me to “please clean up the living room” while he’s out walking with Sunshine. I am like, “But, HONEY, this is JENNA they are quoting! This EVERYTHING I’VE BEEN FIGHTING FOR being reported, seriously, in the MAINSTREAM MEDIA! This is THE biggest victory in adoption reform I’ve ever seen! CLEAN UP THE LIVING ROOM?”
Ha ha ha ha ha ha……
(P.S. Linky to NYTimes on my blog.)
Oh, also should add though, the NYTimes is just using the AP’s bit, did not do their own reporting it appears…
Still it is IN the Times.
Yay to the article. Nay to the responses. Blech. I like my little blog bubble where I’m seen as human….
Yes, in my local paper is the AP story and another (different picture of Jenna. I couldn’t believe my eyes – hey! that’s Jenna in the paper!
Wow, Claud…thanks for the links to the awful ones. If we could harness the energy from all that denial and hostility, we could tell the middle east to go hang! These prople must feel very, very threatened.
I just got back from a wonderful weekend up at St. Augustine to celebrate Hubby’s birthday, turned on my computer and saw this storm of activity. I also wore my “Strange and Mournful” ribbons and had a few inquiries. No one was really hostile or hateful…just curious.
That Yahoo list was the worst.
I think people WILL start listening now. Sadly, in this country you have to have contacts and know how to work the political system to get heard. Adam Pertman can do both, and he will get this report into the hands of those who can do something about the situation.
Whoops, should have done this before that last comment – the AP article is also in the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/18/AR2006111800743.html
Got a question: So a woman places her child for adoption, after all the extra counseling you all are calling for, and 6 months later she comes back to get her kid because she changed her mind. In that 6 months, the prospective “adopters” have been paying for everything for that baby, including medical insurance and all the extras, plus whatever assistance they paid for for the natural mom before she gave birth. Do you think the mom shouldn’t have to pay them back anything for what they shelled out for her care and her child’s care? Cause it sounds to me like you’re trying to set up a situation where irresponsible women can drop their newborn off with a babysitter/cash cow for a couple months while they hang out and do whatever. Is that what you’re saying?
I have an idea: Get rid of adoption AND welfare, and everybody take care of what comes out of their body or doesn’t on their own. No WIC or other handouts. If the “infertile” have to deal, then so do the “fertile”.
Got an answer:
You’re pretty clueless. First off if you had bothered to read up on the subject here or almost anywhere truth telling, then you would KNOW that most moms aren’t looking for a way to go hangout and do whatever. Granted there are SOME who do have priority issues, but the vast majority if given a chance WANT their babies and are willing to raise then, they just don’t feel that they can. So take the less than ideal situations that surround the pregnancy, and then add in the seductive nature of adoption as wrongly promoted by the industy and media, and before you know it you have a willing “birthmother” made to feel that doing anything less than placing her child would be tantamount to ruining both their lives and breaking the poor adoptive parents hearts.
What is porposed is actual TRUTHFUL information not the sugar coated crap. Tel a woman about the pitfalls of relinqishment, show her the studies, give her facts on mother child bonding, make sure she knows that SHE is worth something to her child not just replaceable with a better version with more money. Give her the resources to assist in parenting if she needs it..aaffordable day care, living, job assistance, medical care…you know all the stuff that a socially responsible society deos for the venerable in appreciation that child are worth SOMETHING, that families really do have value.
THEN keep the prespective adoptive parents AWAY from her while she decides and gives birth, Give her time to feel what it is to hold er baby, be a mother, decide if she CAN do it, maybe her reasons do change…OK, so she thinks she still needs to place. SO she signs, say at day 8 of the child’s life.
Now we have a 6 week revoke period. This is now a legal risk placement. If the prespective adoptive parents decide to take in the child, then it is with the knowledge that she can still revoke the consent to adopt. If the parents decide that they cannot take the emotional and finacial risk, then the baby can be placed in interm cradle care supplied by the agency. A decent agency would protect all the rights of those involved at this point, give the mother ample time, give the child loving care, and not inform the adoptive parenst of anything about a possible placement until the deed is done.
So now mom gets to try on living a life of an exiled mother without her child. Here’s where the emotional stuff gets heavy and if she can live this way and not want to die, then so be it. Yeah adoption is the answer.
BUT if she really cannot handle the emotional hell hole then THIS WOULD BE THE TIME TO FIND OUT..not in two years, not in 20 after her life is ruined..but NOW in the first two mnths of the babies life when, looking back, all she needed was a bit of time to face a new life for herself and rrealize what being a mother means.
AND if at that point, the agency feels that they are not getting their money worth wth her as she is not suppling them a product, then perhaps they could work out a decent livable arrangement where she is able to repay them in time..though if half the agencies STOPPED the millions in advertisig they did, they would have more than enough to assist in allowing a mother to be informed and take some time.
And if we are going to brow beat a woman becasue she has no idea what she is facing, to gather her strenght and resources, to e to terms with change, to allow the natural love for her child to grow, to give her internal mother bear time to roar..then, really, this is not a society that I want to be part of.
And sure, if you can make that happen..I’m game. Dump it all.
Now, any more questions?
Why should anyone else have to pay for your kid’s daycare? Or their formula? Why does having a baby automatically entitle one to financial support by the government? I don’t believe in the adoption tax credit either, BTW. And there are MANY women who would place their baby KNOWING they’ll take the baby back, just to get the money and free babysitting for a while. Heck, they fake it now to get financial support during pregnancy.
Here’s another question: I see blogs by natural mothers talking about taking pregnant women in to apply for what basically amounts to welfare. If you believe so much in someone keeping her baby, why don’t YOU pay her electric bill, and babysit her kid, and pay for the kid’s diapers?
Claud,
Hope you don’t mind (just tell me if you do) but I put the question and your awesome answer on my blog. You answered that so so well. Yes, yes, yes.
Thanks for keeping up the fight.
Why do we pay for any social services at all? Wy do we pay for a war? Why do we pay for roads to be redone, and bridges to be made. Why do we pay for the police saleries and new fire trucks? Why does healthcare absorb the costs of those damn uninsured? Why do we pay for school taxes? Why do we pay for disabilty for those who get hurt and cannot work? Why do I get unemploymrnt taxes?
WHY? Becasue I am not an island, becasue you are not an island, because we live in a society that has deemed that it is better for all in this civilization to have a certain standard of living, of care, of ease of life.
Because it costs LESS to provide a strong beginning and then most will use that and finish with a strong future..repaying in the system. Because studies have found that kids learn better with a good breakfast, so the states provide breakfast now for school kids, coz if they leanr better now and enjoy school on a full stomach then they do better in life. Because it will cost us less to assist a young mother with WIC and subsidized day care so se can work and finish school, and pay more taxes, and prevents 1) the tax break to adoptive parents, 2) the mental health costs of a mother with life long issues 3) the mental helath costs of an adoptee who also might have issues.
Second answer: Well let’s see. We are sponsering a mom who is facing some difficulties. Ther are many who do as much as they can. I have, on more than one occasion, offered to open my home to an expectant mom. I know another mom who takes women to social services and helps them navigate the waters when they have no other support. Damn skippy if I had a stuggling mom by me, I would baby sit. And though I am not in the position right now to take on another household electric bill, God bless that I would ever win Lotto ( come on mom..make it happen!)..well, lets just say you ain’t seen nothing yet.
And lastly, I applaud a woman who can separate herself from the industry vultures. I have never met anyone who knowingly wnt out to decieve, but rather the opposite, have met many many who wanted to parent but felt too obligated to the adoptive parents and went along with the charade at their own expense. Why milk an adoption agency when you CAN find public assistnace?
Question: Where did YOU find all these many many women??
Why is an anonymous person asking about mothers? The problem is that a lot of fathers are not taking responsibility for their children. It takes two people to make a child.
It’s also not only about the mother, why should a child be taken from his or her mother and have to grow up with all the emotional problems that adoption causes.
Another thing is that being on welfare is not a crime. A lot of people who are on welfare contribute to society, artists, writers, volunteer workers, women who are caring for their ageing parents, mothers who are raising children. Raising a child is a full time job, why shouldn’t some of your taxes go towards helping single mothers? It goes to blowing up mothers and children in other countries, I think helping build America’s future is an even better way to use the taxes.
All that hatred and anger vented at mothers like us. You need to examine your heart and see where the true source of pain is coming from, and then you might have a chance for happiness.
psst Joy!!!
I WISH YOU PEACE.
Other people put off having children because they can’t afford it. Part of the reason why they can’t afford it is that they’re paying taxes to subsidize your daycare and WIC programs.
If you’re going to provide free food and free daycare and free health care, EVERYONE should get it. In this country, responsible people are penalized and forced to pay for irresponsible people. When someone doesn’t pay their bills or goes bankrupt, those who are financially responsible pick up the slack when they buy things and use their credit cards. Part of the healthcare many of us pay for goes to pay for healthcare for people who say they can’t afford it but who have cell phones and keep getting pregnant and buying vacations and other crap.
If you want no adoption, that’s fine. I have no problem with that. But we should all get to choose who gets our tax dollars.
“Other people put off having children because they can’t afford it”
yeah, and then they find out they’re infertile. age-related infertility begins at age 27-28.
there has to be more support for young parents in this country. young parents of ANY age. so that they don’t have to wait until it is too late to have children of their own.
i agree that aid has to be universal to families. look at the Australian system for an example.
Damn, Claud, you must be tired. Thanks for your willingness to carry on the dialogue. And what about adoption subsidies … another form of “welfare.”
What about that $10,000+ that the adoptive parents who adopt a child get in tax relief? What about all the loans that adoptive parents get for their lawyer, medical, adoption costs? That comes from my tax dollars.
And, the AP article is
HERE!
Oh I wish. I so wish we could all choose to where our tax dollars go. Could you imagine that country? Where we really had a say and they would have to listen to us?? yeah, I would wish all my tax money to go into programs for helping mothers and children, for education, for universal health care. What would you spend your tax dollars on??
Oh, but we don’t live in that perfect world yet. Sadly, not everything is equal. Unfortunatly those who have more, don’t like to share. And we are not all born to an equal footing, nor given an equal dose of luck. And yeah, I beleive in hard work and determination, but sometimes, I do think that most of us might need a little help. Or maybe just some of us, or maybe mistakes do happen, and maybe some people do make some bad choices. I don’t damn them to hell becasue of that coz the funny thing is…you never know when it is going to happen to you or someone you love.
So, again, I think it is one of those saving graces of a more civilized society that we do take into account that bad things happen and we try to help those when they need it. I mean maybe if we had a huge jubilee and evened the score. Everyone gets the same amount like the beginning of a game of monopoly, and then we all just fight for survival. Maybe then being a dog eat dog world is acceptable..and when the losers are lying in their own laziness and stupidity, and the winners are feasting on the spoils, we would know that those who won did so becasue they earned it. But that’s not gonna happen either, is it?
So we are left with this imperfect world, where sometimes people do less than intelligent things…at least by others standards. I don’t know about you, but I only thought I was a saint becasue I sacraficed my child to adoption, never for the perfect choices I have made, so who am I to demand that everyone has to do what I think is right? I guess you must be perfect coz you are real comfortable critising other people’s errors..ok.enjoy.
But we will never be able to give out all thigs equally and freely.I mean even listen to what you are saying…you don’t want to share, you don’t want ‘them’ to have the fruits and benefits for your hard work. See, that is human nature. We want, we try to get it, sometimes unfairly, sometimes with ethics, that is why communism did not work. There was still the need to have more, people are not satisfied, there was corruption and still the haves and have nots.
But they don’t have it becasue they are lazy sods, right? They didn’t work they you did, they aren’t smart like you are, so they don;t deserve that. So we are back to judgement. You are entitled becasue you have your life a certain way and you measure yourself fully accountable for it, yet that they are not in the same place is becasue they did something lacking. They were not like you. They are different.
But that is human nature too, isn’t it. We are all different. We think differntly, we make differnt choice, we want differnt things and we come form differnt backgrounds..so how can we be all like you? We cannot, and yet we are damned becasue of not achieving the impossible.
I see people who have not had the beginning that I did, I see people who were graced with so much more than I had. I see much harder lives, and much easier lives. Lives I fear and lives I envy. Yeah, like everyone else, I want to have more. Don’t we all.
Isnt that what our capitalist society runs on..that we want, that we use, that we consume, that we spend. That’s the American way. And even if we don’t think we need something, they make it cool and new and better and then advertise it to death and then we must have it. Do you have a cool cell phone, a computer, what kind of car do yu drive, clothers do you wear, what do you eat? We are a society based on wainting, and then we get made at those who should not dare to want, who dare to expect also, that they deserve.
But our society hepls them get it becasue they want it, even if they cannot afford it. Oh really, THAT is the American way! What funds the US and the banks? Insterest rates!! So credit baby..all the way. We want people to buy what they cannot afford, but hen we are gonna hate the,..for daring to want what we have created and shoved in their faces, and then enabled them to get when we know they will fail..and then those who have get even more…they get to take back the desired item and they get the poor sods money too..with interest.
And how are they ever going to afford to have a child as a basic right of humainty based on the haves raping them over and over again? Oh right, they won’t. So the stupid and week will die out. Right, we call that eugenics. And if those who dare to break the capitalist law and ask for what is beyond their means, in this case a child, well we can repoesse that too, but call it adoption. And we can give the child to the better ones, the smart ones, the haves wo are entitlted.
Yeah, the middle class is trying to stick to the old values and rule, work for what you got, and they are getting screwed and dying out. The ones who have nothing continue to lose what little they have. And the rich keep getting richer. We all know it is not working. Somethng has got to change, but that’s not my gig.
My thing is adoption. And it is a microcoism of society on a small scale, and one that is close to my heart. So that is what I fight to change, but hey..I don’t mind your bandwagons..you are just pretty juedgmental and clueless to adoption reality. I have plans to fix adoption. What do you bring to the table besides questions?
I would put all my tax money into helping people who had no control over their situation. Like the mentally ill homeless who wander our streets. And the disabled. Pregnancy doesnt just happen to you, like cancer. Yet a single man with no children who has cancer will be allowed to wander the streets homeless. Having a baby is a guarantee to being able to mooch off the government. And having a hard start in life doesn’t mean you’re destined to be a welfare mom, or that you’re more deserving of aid. Many people with horrible childhoods don’t turn into irresponsible people who need government aid. There are choices involved there too.
And the middle class is not disappearing. The vast majority of middle class people are doing just fine. Successful people shouldn’t be punished. There are plenty of student loans out there. You could have been a doctor or lawyer too. That you chose not to do that is not anyone else’s fault.
I’m confused. How did Welfare, WIC, etc. even come up in this discussion?
And why are we even assuming that all women who place a child for adoption take agency money, aparent money, etc for living expenses and medical?
I didn’t. And I know lots of other first moms who didn’t.
Y’know what, Anon. If you made it to the exalted state of self-sufficency and marital legality with your virginity intact, then let me take a picture of you because you are not real. That you were not party to an unplanned pregnancy is good luck…nothing else. Birth control fails, passion happens, people go looking for love, are human and for that, you feel you have the right to sit in judgment and stereotype all unmarried and financially-challenged mothers and decide what cause for our tax dollars is worthy and what isn’t. Ah, your Ivory Tower must be shiny and all the dark spots carefully hidden with white rugs. Get real, why don’t you? You are either an adopter or a mom-hating adoptee or someone affiliated with the industry. The general public has a bit more compassion and ability to understand than you have shown.
Where do you get this stuff?? Really, it’s almost funny.
You want to make these huge broad strokes at society..ok so how is helping a mom with our tax dollars peunishing the middle class any worse than the huge tax breaks given to the wealthy? Both are taking from the middle class..one becasue they need it and ne becasue they just want more and can get it.
I get your jist…those damn people who just can’t figure out how to use birth contol aren’t deserving of any assistance because of thier stupid chioices.
Ok, whatever. I am going to disagree with you here and that will not change.
Who said I want to be an a doctor or a laywer? Who said I didn’t choose NOT to? Invent much? Nice imagaination. No, I am fine with who I am thanks. And I have better things to do with my time than play this game with you.
“Yet a single man with no children who has cancer will be allowed to wander the streets homeless.”
so, why is even this being allowed to happen? welfare is chopped, as you say, and people end up on the streets. mothers and children end up on the streets, adoption is the “safety net” put into place when poverty destroys a family. it is not right. America promised this to all citizens in 1948:
“Universal Declaration of Human Rights”
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html
“Article 25.
” (1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
” (2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection. “
“I would put all my tax money into helping people who had no control over their situation.”
The children we are discussing would certainly fall into that category – or are you saying the children deserve to be punished by being stripped of their identities?
To help the mother is to help the child. And if, in spite of that help, adoption is the best solution to a particular mother’s and child’s need, let’s be sure it’s ethical, lawful, and just.
And I would say kind, too, but I’m seeing little of that these days.
claud. you are amazing. so so smart. i am proud to be your friend.
No-one should be left homeless.
No-one should be forced to lose a loved one due to poverty.
No-one should be without food and shelter for themselves and their families. This includes the young, middle aged, and elderly.
If the U.S. and Canada can put so much money into a war, can’t we put the same amount into family assistance, housing, job training, child-care, and health coverage? At least to the same extent as Australia and New Zealand?
Why does a young mother of 17 need to lose her first child to adoption because she has no job, no place to live, and no way to provide food? That was me. I was mature enough to work as a full-time nanny when I was 15, so I was mature enough to be a mother to my child at age 17. Why was I not told about welfare and that I could keep my baby? Why did the hospital take my infant at birth? Why was I not given a choice? This horror I live with every day, I don’t want to see it happen to anyone else. But, “anonymous” if you kill welfare and WIC, it WILL happen, to more and more single young mothers.
How much financial support do natural mothers of grown relinquished children provide? Do you pay for their college bills once reunion happens? Do you add them to your wills so they get equal inheritance to your “kept” children? Or is it up to the adoptive parents to do all the financial providing? I am curious to know how this all works, once reunion takes place. I’m assuming that if the natural mother wants the child to be equal to her other children, that includes financial help.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
“How much financial support do natural mothers of grown relinquished children provide? Do you pay for their college bills once reunion happens? Do you add them to your wills so they get equal inheritance to your “kept” children?”
What in God’s name makes you think we don’t??? I certainly began financing my child’s college education once we reunited. And she has been in my will all along with provisions for the executor to find her if I had not already.
But that didn’t stop the adopters from hitting the roof when they found out I was helping her financially with tuition (I never kept it secret from them). That was the beginning of their vile spite.
Adoptionroadkill, I wasn’t assuming that you didn’t pay for your child’s college tuition and have him/her in your will. I was just asking how it worked and how common that is. I would think many adoptive parents would be thrilled to have the birth parents pick up the college tuition! 🙂
It is good to know that all of you first moms are paying tuition and have added your first borns to your wills. The adoptive parents shouldn’t have to do everything.
Claud, you need to kick this self-righteous coward (no name here for “anonymous”) out the door. His/her arguments are convoluted, have nothing to really do with the central issue, are specious and the attitude is meant to rile…there’s no exchange of ideas here…just arrogant insults.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
anonymous, I don’t think you sound like a total troll.
What’s your experience with adoption? Maybe we have some common ground.
I definately think that most bioparents would be willing to all the work if allowed. As well as pay for anything they could pay for.
There are bioparents who wouldn’t but I dont’ know them….lol, nor do I think I would get along….
-Rox
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Just popping in to wish anonymous PEACE.
And Strength, and the ability to think critically, yes Anon, I wish all these wonderful things for you TOO.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
People, there are at least 3 different people using “anonymous” to post.
I had to deleat a few of the comments. Nothing huge, but I am not too keen on keeping stuff up that has ‘real” names on them. I don’t mind being “real”..thats MY choice, but I cannot make that choice for others.
I would suggest if anyone needs to ask me personal stuff…which I have no issue with at all! my email addy is right under my picture and it works just fine. Please use it..Thanks!!
I didnt find thing that i need… 🙁
[url=http://yahoo.com]yahoo[/url]
Huh? What do you need?
ImeClaud2003@yahoo.com…
Oops, sorry ’bout that, Claud. I keep promising myself that I won’t get into any more of these pissing contests with these “folks.” I need to follow up on it. Sorry I used a name. I still don’t know the person to whom anon was referring, but it does’t matter in the long run, now does it?
I apologize for using your son’s full name here. It’s just that this website is being passed around to a bunch of us here in MA and we are trying to figure out if GG is the same person as Max. No offense intended.
No offense taken, and you got it…smart cookies that you are. I’m not upset, just that also, what I say does piss some people off…trolls usually..and I don’t need them messing around..and I would not put it passed some folks to do just that if they had a name for real…
“being passed around by a bunch of you??”…oh do tell!! Come on over, talk to me…and give yourself some names..( you can pick something beside anons!)
WOW that thread was horrid and nasty! I cried reading some of the words (ricardo sticks out the most).. I don’t have the highest self esteem, but man…they could take everything that i had left if i had to hear that day in and day out…..I like how the no good bitches who spread their legs, were able to keep a level head and all the others went crazy and rude….i Thanks
BTW… the government is BLUE.. Dems in the House and Dems in the Senate (it was stated if you voted for the Dems you were an idiot.. i guess most of the US is…since the Dems run it now)
Silence!
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